Monique Mbeka Phoba Democratic Republic of Congo

Originally published in Sisters of the Screen: Women of Africa on Film Video and Television. Africa World Press, Trenton, NJ, 2000.

Interview conducted during Vues d'Afrique, April 1997 Montreal, Quebec. Translated from French.

Your most recent film is being presented here at Vues d' Afrique and it was also shown at the 15th edition of FESPACO in February. Could you tell me a bit about yourself and your latest film?

I am Zaïrian. I direct documentary films, for the most part. I have worked in video up until the present, and I have done four documentaries. The last film, Deux petits tours et puis s'en vont, I co-directed with Beninian director Emmanuel Kolawole of the Benin Television. I have been living in Benin for the past two years.

Before relocating to Benin, you were based in Belgium for some time. Could you talk about your background and your experiences in Belgium?

From a very early age, I was interested in literature. I wrote poetry when I was very young. I also had a passion for history. I would always plunge into my father's newspapers and other literature, so that when I was ready to go to university I had already written two collections of poems. Everybody always said to me, "You will be a writer." I realized, however, that it was something that caused me to be too enclosed in an ivory tower. I was detached from reality. I wanted to escape from this tendency, since I was a bit of a recluse. I decided that I did not want to stay in this world of literature that distanced me from reality and people. I felt that I must try to find something else. And that is how I found myself in the field of communication. First I worked mainly in radio, where I stayed for five years. I also worked in theater and did all sorts of activities where I was required to interact with people.

While studying Economic and Commercial Sciences at Université Libre de Bruxelles, there was a radio station called "Radio Campus" where the students could express themselves. For five years, I was responsible for a one-hour program. It was actually quite a job. Every week I had to come up with issues and topics for the program. There were subjects of political, social, and cultural interests. Thus, I was able to develop the skills required to treat these subjects.

So it was through your experiences in radio that you evolved into cinema?

Yes, it was in working in radio that I acquired an interest in African cinema. At the time I met a compatriot—who is also present at Vues d'Afrique and was also at FESPACO—Ngangura Mweze, who directed La vie est belle in the early 1980s. It was through him that I got involved in culture and cinema. It was quite an experience for me to work with a Zairian and compatriot who made a feature film, which was also very successful. Gradually, I covered more and more issues relating to cinema in my radio shows.

I then went to FESPACO in 1987 and again in 1989. I was very attracted to the cinema, but since my studies were more in the area of marketing, I thought that I would pursue film production. On the other hand, since I had a skill in writing and I still had literary tendencies, I thought that I would go into scriptwriting. I didn't think that I could go into directing, having not studied it. Moreover, I had no time to study another area, since I had already spent five years in school. Therefore, I focused on the areas of scriptwriting and producing.

Then I had the possibility to attend a three-month workshop for documentary filmmaking. One could not pretend to be a documentary filmmaker after this training course. After all, it only lasted three months. Perhaps I can compare it to a method where one is thrown in water to learn to swim. Rather than take a year to learn, the person is thrown into the water and, depending on the ability to manage in the water, the person is either repelled by swimming or becomes a great swimmer. It was something to this effect.

We were taught for about a month how to manipulate the features of the camera; during the second month, we shot a film; and during the last month, we edited it. I remember how terrified I was. My film was a complete failure, but there were other colleagues who came out okay, who made a successful film—and that was the principle of this kind of training. They were at the same level as I was. They had never used a camera before, and the process of filmmaking also intimidated them; yet, they succeeded in doing wonderful films. Having blundered in my first attempt, I had to prove myself.

During that period there were national conferences for democracy. This was the beginning of 1990. There was a national conference in Zaïre and I wanted to attend. So I bought a camera on credit (I did not have money to buy it outright). As it turned out, the conference did not take place at that time, it was postponed for several months. Since I did not have much money, I felt that I had to film something, so I did a report about the press. There was a new presse d'opinion in Zaïre, which meant that there were new newspapers that appeared each day. I chose the five most important newspapers that played an important role in Zairian politics at the moment.

I had a small Hi-8 camera. I operated both the camera and the audio. Though the images were not very good, because I had so little experience, when I returned, people felt that the material was something that they had never seen about Zaïre before. So the success that the film did have came from the fact that I had spent a good deal of time in the field of communication, where I did a lot of interviewing and so on.

I met a leftist group with whom I quickly connected. The group members had other audiovisual perspectives on the African reality and the Southern Hemisphere in general. They had editing facilities and allowed me to edit. That is how I did my first film [Revue en vrac], which was awarded a prize here at Vues d'Afrique in 1992. This is how I evolved into filmmaking.

Do you find that there are similarities between preparing a story, report, or documentary for radio and preparing documentaries for video/film? In what ways did radio work prepare you for video/filmmaking?

I treat my themes in a specific way. I'll give you an example of what I did on radio. The war between Senegal and Mauritania is a situate that dates far back. During a period when the conflict resurfaced, I went to see Senegalese who lived in Belgium and France. I queried them about the history of the black and Arab Mauritanians who lived in Senegal and asked them why the problems had come to this. I did historical research in addition to the interviews. I also found music from Senegal and Mauritania. I searched to find the sounds that evoked the desert and sea, since it was a problem about the border and the Senegal River. I created my radio programs like a short film, a film with only sound.

I think that is why I moved toward cinema. Because it takes a lot of time and energy to do this kind of program, and radio programming generally does not allow this kind of time. It must be done quickly. Though I did not have the time, my projects became increasingly ambitious. I remember once I did a fifteen-minute segment for which I collected songs and music. Actors read letters during the program. This fifteen-minute segment required an entire night of editing.

My friends said to me "What are you doing? You are crazy. First of all you are doing it for free, you are not being paid! We are only students!" There was not really the means to do much. In order to really do more, you must spend money to rent equipment, to pay actors, and so on. What pushed me to leave radio was that it became a field too small for what I wanted to express. Going from radio to film was a logical step.

You were in Belgium, now you live in Africa, in Benin at the moment. Do you find that there is a great difference between working in Belgium and Benin? Going from Europe to Africa in general?

Yes. First of all, I must say that I have always more or less lived in Europe, aside from short intervals when I was in Zaïre, but not for a very long time. I spent time in Asia; however, I mainly lived in Europe. I think that I have always felt my identity as a Black woman among white people. This experience shaped a very particular personality.

I demand positive images of my origins, of Africa. I am very militant on this level because I have lived in an environment where oftentimes a black person is not valued. A black person is viewed only as someone to be helped, lucky to get this help, and then must say thank you for it. A black person is viewed as someone who never feels at home, who has nothing to demand and only something to be thankful for. This is a heavy burden. You are always on the defensive. This meant that I was very aggressive, very sullen, and very uneasy among those with whom I collaborated. Although things went well and the films turned out well, there was a very acute tension.

Coming to Africa, there have been other tensions, and different ones. Nonetheless, I am coming from Europe and I bring other kinds of behavior and other ways of relating, that's clear. And, of course, I also have problems. I would say that the main problem that weighed on me the most when I was in Europe, and that I no longer have, is that I did not feel that I was at home there. Of course, I am Zairian and I am not completely at home in Benin. However, I am in Africa, and the absence of this tension means that I am appreciating life and in some ways I am less militant in the sense that I don't always have to defend myself. What has always been important to me is to try to collect the positive things—because often we look for models from the outside—stock up on them, not lose a drop of these good things, and then broadcast them. I am in the field of communication and my role is to broadcast these things.

Benin is a country that is a kind of laboratory or experiment for us. It is an example of what will perhaps take place in Zaïre in five years or in Rwanda in ten years. We seem to always have to find experts from the West; we must become experts of our own reality. I cannot call myself an expert. I would say that I present the materials for the experts, those who are thinking about our future. Moreover, the image is important, it is emotional; it speaks to the guts. It provides the possibility to speak to many different audiences. I am not for an elite public. I don't think that I am a genius who can only address herself to other geniuses. I would like everyone to have access to my ideas so that they may be discussed and shared by many Africans.

You have worked on issues regarding the problems between Mauritania and Senegal; most recently, you have focused on events that have taken place in Benin. There is a certain pan-Africanism in your approach. Is this a role that you feel that you want to take on?

Yes, there was a part of me earlier on which was very pan-African. But also I pose the question, "Well, why not explore what is also happening in Latin America? Why not go see what is going on among black Americans?" Europe is always our point of departure. It is this certain Eurocentrism that annoys me. Besides, I am from Africa; in Africa I am from Zaïre; in Zaïre I am from a certain region. There are all sorts of identities that accumulate and it is important to try not to contradict oneself. There are many conflicts that are ethnicity-based.

There are people in Benin who say to me, "You are Zairian, what are you doing here?" That, I suppose, I should expect; in a way, I am immune by having passed through Europe. So this European experience has proven to be useful. My husband is European and has been very important in my process. He is someone with whom I discuss, with whom I work, and we think on the same level. That is very important for me. I am not anti-European. Nevertheless, I am only saying that we must learn to avoid the trap that tempts us. We are in a very competitive world, and those who say that they are helping you are not telling the truth: everyone has an interest. De Gaulle was clear: "France does not have friends, only interests." This frankness was one thing to his credit. We often forget these words, which are still very fundamental in Afro-European relations.

You have experience in literature, radio, and film, which are all in the area of communication. As a woman, in the media, what do you see as your role?

I would say that the woman can very easily accept being the carrier of a message, carrier of the message of hope, the message of change, the message of evolution. The woman can be a medium of transmission. We must not generalize too much, of course, but what I sense is that we have a personality, an identity that allows us this role. The "feminine" identity is in some ways the preservation of the nuclear family. Our aspirations are closely linked to the security of the community, of which we are psychologically, materially, and emotionally responsible. This means that during this period of evolution, the woman must commit herself, she must be there, because she must be the role model.

Could you talk about some future projects? We are seeing the eventual decline of Mobuto Sese Seko. Do you envision returning to Zaïre to freely cover the events of the country?

I have never felt separated from Zaïre, I think it shows in all that I have done. Even in doing a film about the return of "brainpower" in Benin—which was the subject of my second film, Rentrer?—there was always the question of how to manage the enormous Diaspora of Zairians outside of the country, which is similar to what came about in Benin. The problem in Zaïre is posed at the same time as it is in Benin. I film in Benin so that it serves for my country as well. Now that there will be elections at home, evidently, I feel the same way as I did regarding the elections in Benin. I have never spoken about any other country than Zaïre, but perhaps in another way.

Now I have film projects that I would like to do, that I am waiting to do, that I hope to do in a better climate. When I go to Zaïre there is something that makes me feel that I am being called by my land. It is something that speaks from the inside. It is almost overwhelming. It is astounding even. I am on the Zairian soil and there are so many things that speak to me—in the people, in the language, in the manner in which it is spoken.

When I first came to Benin I was not at ease, because although it was an African country, it was not Zaïre. This unsettled me. I expected to somehow find my country in the language, in the manner in which things were said, through gestures or an intonation. Well, it did not happen because Benin, was after all another country, it was not Zaïre. I was looking for these things, but they were not there. At the beginning, I was bothered by it to the extent that I wanted to take the next plane and leave for Zaïre. However, after two years, things have smoothed out; now I am very happy in Benin.

Something has touched my identity that I must resolve with my country and I will never be happy until I have the possibility of doing something there, even if I was to leave later. I am a traveling spirit; I have never been in one country for very long. I would never say that I will settle in Zaïre and never leave. Nevertheless, I certainly need to re-appropriate my country—for me, for my children, it is necessary.