Originally published in Sisters of the Screen: Women of Africa on Film Video and Television. Africa World Press, Trenton, NJ, 2000.
Interview and press conference held at FESPACO, February 1997, Ouagadougou, Burkina Faso. Translated from French.
Fanta, you have the distinction of being the first woman of Burkina Faso to do a fiction film. Could you talk about how you became interested in filmmaking?
It was quite by chance. When I was younger, I liked cinema quite a bit. I had a neighbor who knew about a film school in Burkina, and since I was very interested in films, I asked her for more information and she told me about INAFEC (Institut Africain d'Education Cinématographique). I studied at the film school for three years. As I continued my courses, I realized that I was interested in directing. However, the curriculum required that the students first learn scriptwriting and editing, and then work with an assistant director before learning to direct. Thus, I did a bit of everything before doing my first short film.
Your first short film, Un certain matin, received several prizes, the Tanit d'Or for short film at Carthage in 1992, the Licorne d'Or at Amiens also in 1992, the First Prize Air Afrique in Milan in 1993, and Special Mention in Montreal, also in 1993. Could you talk a bit about this film?
It was a glimpse into the life of a peasant in Burkina. He wakes up one morning and, like any other morning, he goes to the field. However, on this morning, before going to the field, he has three bad omens; he bumps his left foot, he kills a newborn black chick, and he hears the chirping of a bird that sings off-key. He then asks himself, "What is going to happen to me today?"
While he is working in the field, he hears a young girl crying for help. He looks around and notices a man with an axe who is about to kill the young girl. He thinks, "There is not a moment to lose," he then picks up his rifle and shoots him. The madman falls to the ground, he is covered with blood. We then hear someone say "Cut!" In fact, it was a production shoot and these two people were the actors in the film. Since he had never seen a production shoot and the crew was hidden on a hill, he could not imagine that these were actors. He actually thought that the girl was in danger. So, the film is about this story.
Your next film, Puk Nini, is among the short films in competition here at FESPACO. Could you talk about the film and why you chose this theme?
Puk Nini means "Open your eyes, be vigilant." It is a Mossi expression. What it is saying, in fact, is that when a problem comes, do not stand idle with arms crossed, do not be pessimistic. Stand up and move, go forward and find a solution to one's problem. The idea occurred to me because I have many male friends who were colleagues at INAFEC and are married and still quite young. Yet, they have already had two or three extra-marital relationships.
I wanted to know why, after one year of marriage, that they found it necessary to have a mistress and a relationship outside of the marriage. Often they have relationships with women who come from Togo or Ghana. What I came to understand is that my colleagues find that these women treat them in a manner that they are unaccustomed to when they are at home with their Burkinabé wives. It is from this idea that I decided to make this film.
As it turns out, the woman who you chose to be the seductress, was neither Togolese nor Ghanaian, but in fact, she was Senegalese. Why did you decide to choose a Senegalese woman?
Why a Senegalese woman? Well, I had the choice among Togolese, Malian, and Senegalese women. I chose a Senegalese woman because I saw a film that gave me some ingredients for my story. The film is called Djali Djali, by Senegalese filmmaker William Mbye. In the film the ingredients of seduction are described, such as, how to use incenses, how to perfume oneself, how to wear the djali djali around the waist. Those were the elements that helped me in the evolution of my script, and so I chose a Senegalese woman.
You stated that your married colleagues have mistresses outside of their marriages, yet Astou, the Senegalese seductress, appeared to be a prostitute. Why was she portrayed as a prostitute and not a mistress?
In fact, she is a mistress, not a prostitute. A prostitute walks the streets while a mistress does not; she is in her house. Perhaps she will go out to have a drink, and it is in these situations that she will meet lovers who are looking around, but she is not going to walk the streets to look for clients.
However, the second time that Salif, the male protagonist, went out with still another woman, she also appeared to be a prostitute. It seems as if the couple was coming out of a room in a brothel, which confirmed my initial impression that Astou was a prostitute. Based on how she was introduced in the story, I got the impression that she was looking for someone for the moment. She did not appear to be looking for a relationship, nor did she appear to be looking for someone in particular.
Again a distinction has to be made between a prostitute and a mistress. In the end, it really is the same thing. A prostitute goes out with someone who is not her husband; a mistress does the same thing. The distinction is the approach that is used to obtain the client. For instance, when Salif goes out with the white woman in the bar, she is not a prostitute but rather an adventure that he has with a white woman. Perhaps the white woman is married, but we don't know in the film. However, because the man is married he cannot bring her to his house. So the only thing that he can do is take her to a hotel or a maison de passe [a place where a couple goes to engage in discreet intimate activities], in fact.
What has been the reception to this film? I know it has been seen here in Ouagadougou, has it been shown in Senegal? What are the Senegalese reactions to this film and the responses in general?
In general, it has had a good reception. At FESPACO, after the three screenings, the audience had a positive reaction. They understood that it was a comedy and they allowed themselves to experience it within this context. They were amused, and they laughed. Of course, it provoked much discussion among them.
There were generally three kinds of reactions. The Burkinabé men felt that they were mistreated, that I have a bad impression of them, and that I portrayed them all as women chasers. The Burkinabé women were also disappointed because they thought that I presented them as primitive, as women who do not know how to seduce. Then there were the Senegalese women who felt that I portrayed them as prostitutes, that I mistreated them as well. Those are the three different negative reactions.
There were positive reactions. Some Senegalese women felt that it was a song in praise of the Senegalese woman. There were Burkinabé women who welcomed it, because it permitted them to think further, and perhaps to reflect upon the crisis that exists among couples. Because no matter what we say about African life today, there is a crisis among couples that is alarming. It is necessary, at least for me, to think about the relationship between women and men.
Do you think that you portray a certain sensibility in you work that comes from being a woman filmmaker?
I would say that there is a human sensibility. Ever since I saw a film called Femme d'Alger, which was made by a man, with what one may even call a woman's sensibility, I've come to realize that there is really no woman's or man's sensibility, but there is simply a human sensibility.
If another woman were to make Puk Nini, the scenario of the film would not be filmed in the manner in which I did it. If I were to give it to a man, it would be again a different way of filming it. So, each person films in relationship to her or his sensibility, as well as past, daily life, and dreams of the future.
You were trained in a film school in Africa; you have worked with African filmmakers Idrissa Ouédraogo, Dikongue-Pipa, and Kitia Touré. You have had experience as editor and scriptwriter. Could you talk about African cinema as you see it?
To talk about African cinema is a bit complicated because it is a cinema that is going through a tremendous crisis. A crisis of scripts and stories, a crisis of distribution, a crisis of production. In spite of all these crises, I try to find funds to make short films. Because I feel that short films are the best training ground in the evolution to feature films. Nevertheless, it is true that it is very difficult, though, at the same time, things are possible.
African cinema, or more accurately African cinemas—because there are many African cinemas—is going through a turbulent period. With the restructuring of the FEPACI [Pan-African Federation of Filmmakers]—because our foundation, which has been in existence for twenty-five years, is going through a crisis—we need to consider new ideas in order to redirect this cinema. Perhaps this restructuring will help us come out of this ghetto. The problem with African cinema is that it has been a cinema that has looked to the outside for its audience, in the hope that it would make a profit in order to do other projects. We quickly forget about our own public.
At the moment there is a brainstorming group based in Bamako whose objective is to come up with ways to make our films profitable on the continent. We have a significant population—however, only ten percent of the African population sees our films. Even if they pay a small amount for entry fee into the cinema house, if ninety percent of the African population goes to see our films, perhaps we could succeed in resolving the problems around production. At this moment we are going through a complete overhaul: we are reflecting, we are pulling our efforts together to give a new orientation to this cinema which will become even greater.
Ouagadougou, Burkina Faso, is often called the capital of African cinema. Besides the crisis, do you think that here in Ouaga, and in Burkina in general, there is more of an awareness of African cinema than elsewhere?
Yes, we speak a great deal about African cinema and Burkina, indeed, as the capital of African cinema. We are numerous in terms of filmmakers and we have had the chance to benefit from a tax that is charged on foreign films. Although it is not as effective as before, this money allows at least the possibility to pay for equipment and to pay technicians. We have a conscious policy vis-à-vis African cinema, which is very important in Burkina, and it facilitates the production of our work. When there is already material and technical assistance, and the support of Burkina, this offers a credible dossier when we present a film project and budget to outside financiers. The politics and the actual endeavors of Burkina regarding the cinema are significant.
In 1986, while studying film at INAFEC, you and the other students had the opportunity to collaborate on a film project with African American film students and film professor Abiyi Ford from Howard University, who came here from the United States. Could you talk about this experience?
What can I say? I had very important relationships and professional connections with black Americans or—what did you call them?
African Americans....
...with African Americans, as they are now called. They were very positive relationships. I also later met Zeinabu Davis and other filmmakers.
The experience with Abiyi Ford from Howard University twelve years ago on a collective film by students was our first cinematographic experience. It was very important for me and allowed me to define my role in this profession.
Could you envision making a film about African Americans or a film that makes a connection between Africans and African Americans?
I really have not thought a lot about this subject. I had thought there was a possibility for us to work in collaboration with African Americans from the United States, but I realized that American money does not leave the American continent. What would perhaps be possible to do is a co-production or a part of the shooting that takes place in Africa and the post-production in the United States or a part of the shooting that takes place in the United States. However, the United States is so far away from our continent and the transportation is very expensive, this collaboration would be somewhat difficult.
On the other hand, to do a film about black Americans? I don't have an idea yet, but why not? I would have to spend some time in the United States and live with African Americans in order to come up with a script idea. However, if one could succeed in doing a film that would permit the two African communities to come together, that would be a good idea.
We now see more and more Africans and Caribbean people who are living in Europe, or at least who spend a great deal of time between Africa and Europe, like yourself, as well as the United States. What do you think about doing a film that speaks about black people and their experiences in Europe?
To be quite honest, no, not yet. My imaginary in terms of cinema is based in Burkina. When I look for an idea for a film, I base it on Burkina, the capital, or my village. My reference has not yet gone beyond the limits of my borders. On the other hand, perhaps that will happen when I am ready to go beyond those limits. I did do a film on video recently for the black community living in Paris. It was a film for the Soninké, called L'Ecole au coeur de la vie. It was a film to teach families how to better help in the education of their children.
As a Burkinabé woman, what do you think about the grand prize of FESPACO, the Etalon de Yennenga? Yennenga was a legendary woman of the Mossi Empire.
The fact that Yennenga was a legendary woman who made a great contribution is very important, and every Burkinabé woman and every African woman should be proud. To show her as an emblem, to give distinction to a film in her name, is important. However, I have at a certain given moment, questioned what it really means to have the prize Etalon de Yennenga. What can it give, for better or worse, to a film or the director. I don't know, especially when I see the films that have been awarded the Etalon de Yennenga during FESPACO, later to only remain in a drawer, when the prize should have meant a successful commercial release. So what does this prize really mean? This is a question that I am posing at the moment. I have not yet found a response.
What is your next film about?
It is a short film called Le truc de Konaté. It is a comedy about the constraints of condoms in the rural areas. You know we are a very traditional society and everything that is foreign poses a problem and it is a comedy based on this.
Do you have any future projects that you are working on as well?
I am writing a script for another project that is a film adaptation of the novel by Mariama Ba, Une si longue lettre (So Long a Letter). It will be my first feature film. It is a project for an African production by Bassek ba Kobhio, who bought the rights. I have done a first draft of the scenario. Now I must work with an actual scriptwriter to put in place the structure and the organization of the narrative.
Mariama Ba's So Long a Letter is a very beautiful and poetic story and, of course, her work has been well received in the literary world. Do you think it is an important practice to take African literature and adapt it to film? Why did you choose So Long a Letter?
I like Une si longue lettre very much. It is a novel that I had an opportunity to study at school. In rereading it for the adaptation, I realized that it was a wonderful story on the condition of women. It is still contemporary although it was written perhaps twenty years ago. It continues to be a reality because the problems of women have not actually evolved, the problems around education have not evolved, the political problems have not evolved. I actually feel closer to the women in this book than some of the women of today. I think that the themes raised in the book are important.
The only problem was that since I did not have the technique for adaptation to film, the process from novel to screenplay was a bit long. In addition, the problem with adapting this particular story is that since it is a very well-known book, each person who has read it has an image already in her or his mind. To be able to visualize it in a manner that allows everyone who has read the book to get into the film narrative will be very difficult. I hope that I will be able to find a consensus, so that each film viewer can find what she or he envisioned when reading this novel.
Press conference after the press screening of Puk Nini at FESPACO 1997; questions by various members of panel and audience.
What inspired you to do the film Puk Nini
It came from a dear friend of mine who works for the television station, where he presents issues and situations relating to society. I also wanted to reflect upon love relationships between women and men to try to understand a bit more about the cultural aspects of our society.
Africa is rather vast, and cultures are very diverse; therefore, one must be clever enough to draw from various sources in order to create her or his own cultural perspective.
I saw the film and I liked it for its humor and its light-heartedness, and at the same time for the serious treatment of the subject. Also some scenes were risqué. Were those scenes difficult for you to choose?
It was not difficult because for me it would not have been a film without those scenes. It is a film about love relationships and I didn't want to be hypocritical to the audience and myself. People can interpret it as they want, but for me it was essential.
...What lesson should women learn from this film?
The objective was not to recommend that Burkinabé women do as Senegalese women do. The importance for me was to show that one must think about how we can each day nourish the flame in an intimate relationship between a woman and a man.
Judging from the end of the film it seems hopeless, it seems that men will not stop having affairs.
I don't think that men's behavior is rectifiable. But they were not the only ones that I criticized. I think that everyone in this film had her or his turn to be scrutinized, whether it was the Burkinabé woman, the Senegalese woman, each in one way or another had her responsibility to assume. I did not mean to accuse the woman or the man, but to simply show that there is a combination of things and that mistakes must be shared between the woman and the man.
At the end of the film the scene of the two women did not enter into a cliché, but rather you showed the complicity between them, and perhaps that is the solution. However, at the end we see that the man goes out with a European woman....
There are two reasons: we have always had fantasies of those things coming from the outside...
Perhaps the foreigners have fantasies as well!
Indeed, foreigners have fantasies about Burkinabé women, as they may have fantasies towards others. Frenchmen may have fantasies about Swedish women. So having fantasies is a rather universal concept. I did not want to end the film when the two women [the wife and former mistress] became friends, which could have been interpreted as, "If you discover that you have a rival, meet her and become friends with her and everything will eventually straighten itself out." I did not want to give this impression. No one is perfect; each person must find the solution that works for her or him.
There are women who think that the film is a first step towards the making of a pornographic film in Africa...
Not at all. First, one must understand the difference between a pornographic film and an erotic film. I think that my film is, simply speaking, sensual.
Has your film been aired on Burkinabé television, and have you discussed your film with the Burkinabé public?
No, the film has not been broadcast on television. However, excerpts have been shown to give an idea of what the film is about, which brought about the debates that have been written in the newspapers. There have been several positive as well as negative reactions. Among the negative reactions, it was felt that the film is somewhat pornographic. Also, some Burkinabé and Senegalese women have felt insulted.
Audience Member: People are hypocritical, at the same time they participate in these activities and then express negative reactions when they are revealed....
I am for these reactions, which is why I made the film, in order to have a debate. It is through these debates that we may resolve problems and I am delighted that the debate brings in controversy. There have been lively discussions between men and women about this film. Some of these discussions pose the question about the responsibility of each person in a relationship.
Did you have problems with the actors, especially during the risqué scenes?
Not at all. I explained that to play in a film is not to reenact daily life, but rather we interpret a character. I think that our actors had a certain maturity, which allowed them to forget their own feelings about the subject and to embody the character and show her or his experiences, and that is a plus for African cinema. I am a bit sad, however, because the woman who played the role of the Senegalese had a few problems with her companion. However, things have since been worked out: I think that he eventually understood that in reality she was not a prostitute, she was a very intelligent and ambitious woman.
At the end, I realize that there was no solution. Because when the woman approached her rival, she stated, "I have a technique and I will teach you," but yet the wife stated, "No"!
That was important. Perhaps it was what we might call a modern reaction. I wanted the Burkinabé woman to respond in this way. I wanted her to think about the steps toward a solution rather than to be pessimistic.
